Under the background of "double carbon", what kind of relationship should be maintained between traditional energy and new energy? How to grasp the rhythm of new energy development? The reporter interviewed Jiang Yaodong, member of the National Committee of the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference and former vice president of China University of Mining and Technology (Beijing).

Reporter: General Secretary Xi Jinping emphasized that green transformation is a process, not an overnight thing. It must be established first and then broken, but not without first being established. How should it be understood?

Jiang Yaodong: To achieve the "dual carbon" goal, we must base ourselves on the national conditions, and we must not be divorced from reality, rush for success, and we must not engage in "one size fits all" and campaign-style carbon reduction. From the Sixth Plenary Session of the 19th Central Committee of the Communist Party of China to "guarantee energy and resource security", to last year's Central Economic Work Conference emphasizing "ensure energy supply", to this year's government work report, "energy security" has been elevated to the same level as "food security" It is of great significance and far-reaching influence to firmly stabilize the employment of energy security.

At present, my country's energy and power consumption is still in a stage of rapid growth. Although renewable energy is developing rapidly, it is difficult to meet the huge demand, or even fully meet the incremental demand for energy and power consumption. For a long period of time in the future, coal will still be my country's independent and controllable energy resource with natural advantages. In the future, my country's coal will be transformed from a guaranteed energy source to a support energy source, and finally to an emergency and peak-shaving energy source.

Reporter: Compared with coal, the output of new energy sources such as solar energy and wind energy is more volatile. Will this feature bring difficulties to energy transition and replacement in the future? What do you suggest about this?

Jiang Yaodong: It will indeed bring some difficulties. New energy sources such as wind power and photovoltaics are random, intermittent and volatile. From the current energy technology and market reality, "new energy + energy storage" cannot completely replace fossil energy or coal power.

I suggest to grasp the pace of new energy development, improve the level of new energy utilization, establish and improve wind power and photovoltaic power generation investment monitoring, early warning and evaluation systems, strictly limit the construction of new projects in areas where wind and solar power is abandoned, and guide the overall development layout.

Reporter: In the context of "double carbon", what do you think the relationship between traditional energy and new energy should be?

Jiang Yaodong: The relationship between new energy and traditional energy should be complementary, interdependent, symbiotic and co-prosperous, not a zero-sum game. The optimized combination of coal-fired power generation and renewable energy power generation can make full use of the stability of coal-fired power generation and provide a basis for renewable energy to stabilize fluctuations; using the carbon comprehensive capacity of renewable energy can provide carbon emission reduction methods for coal-fired power generation, To a greater extent, reduce the carbon emission reduction pressure of pure coal-fired power generation.

In order to realize the complementary advantages of the development of the two, it is necessary to increase the support for the low-carbon transformation of coal-fired units and the coupled development of coal-fired units and new energy power generation while giving full play to the basic guarantee of coal-fired power. At the same time, based on the ability of coal power enterprises to ensure supply and peak regulation, rationally allocate new energy resources, and through horizontal multi-energy complementation and vertical source network load-storage coordination, orderly promote the transformation of coal power enterprises to comprehensive energy enterprises and to UHV power transmission. Upstream development of the line. In a word, it is necessary to establish a "safe, reliable, affordable and sustainable" clean, low-carbon, safe and efficient modern energy system with new energy as the main body in the future.